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**** Mon Feb 10 22:31:08 2003 22:31:52 hey, there 22:33:25 Blacky_: :) 22:33:39 witamy nell 22:33:41 Blacky_: I've just wrote a letter to you 22:33:44 wysłałem radeon issues 22:33:58 Blacky_: use English so that we could put logs on the web :) 22:34:12 nooo 22:34:14 where is ross? 22:34:36 Drakker, togukawa, ross, anyone else is in development? 22:34:38 lion probably 22:35:49 I must write to Lion soon 22:36:16 Drakker is sleeping or doing other things probably 22:36:23 Ross isn't online 22:36:45 basse doesn't give any signs of life 22:43:25 Blacky_: do you know anything about running python scripts on sf.net? 22:43:42 how? 22:43:42 where? 22:43:49 "on sf.net" ? 22:46:02 nell: ? 22:46:43 to run eowiki pages on eounicorn.ef.net 22:47:00 ah 22:47:11 I never been able to check what Wiki really is 23:20:00 hey ho 23:26:52 hey, Drakker 23:27:01 how are you? 23:27:40 I've got a letter from Lion today, I am inviting him on the channel 23:31:49 hi 23:32:21 oh, I've remined about us :) 23:32:41 Drakker said 'hey ho' and gone ... 23:33:06 nell: I disabled +m because voice doesn't work 23:33:10 busy :} 23:33:45 Blacky_: I agree 23:34:24 Blacky_: good that you have level heigh enough to do that 23:34:31 Drakker: I see! 23:41:14 Drakker: on what you are working ? 23:43:02 nell: I really want to dig in your sources today :), where we was at ? 23:44:40 object.cpp 23:45:37 tokugawa: it would be better to use your idea with increasing the velocity, than moving the position directly after the collision 23:46:04 -0.1.15.9 ? 23:46:06 the reason is that we change position always respectively to the current velocity 23:46:09 yeap 23:46:46 tokugawa: the method that changes the position doesn't know if the collision occured or not 23:47:36 nell: but I must change the position in order to get the object out of the cell 23:48:12 nell: you must have an function "Collision with cell" 23:48:12 nell: only boolean result, don't u ? 23:49:04 tokugawa: just check the level.cpp, ok? 23:49:26 nell: please, give me on memo info about new relases btw... 23:50:21 ok level.cpp & object.cpp 23:50:43 tokugawa: look at the summary page 23:50:57 tokugawa: at sourceforge.net/projects/eounicorn 23:51:14 tokugawa: than look at the table with two packages (stable and devel) 23:51:29 there is a column named: Notes/Monitor 23:51:41 click the envelope, login and done 23:51:56 btw, give me your sourceforge.net login 23:51:58 Lion! 23:52:07 hi, Lion 23:52:19 I must call Blacky then 23:52:41 tokugawa, Drakker meet Lion 23:52:46 {:)}= 23:52:46 Hi! 23:52:46 Just read email. 23:52:46 nell: yes i know abou that 23:52:46 li0n^: hi 23:53:04 I need to leave soon, but I thought I'd see the channel. 23:53:19 great 23:53:22 heya! 23:53:22 Hello TokuGawa, Drakker! 23:53:22 sorry, I'm a bit busy, more work :\ 23:53:32 Drakker: meet Lion! 23:53:41 I don't think we've ever met, right? 23:53:41 hello developers 23:53:41 I dont think so 23:53:59 Pawel, I don't think I know you either. 23:53:59 I dont think so 23:53:59 Wow..! 23:53:59 li0n^: I'm Pawel too :) 23:54:03 li0n^: have you seen Draker's brown sand? 23:54:17 Oh. {:)}= 23:54:17 already said hi :) 23:54:17 :) 23:54:35 What are you all currently doing with the project? 23:54:35 pixel art ;) 23:54:50 li0n^: Pawel_Sokolowski is wondering what he can do for the project, and he still have no idea, heh 23:54:53 well. I'm Pawel (Falcon) Sokolowski and I'm not a developer ;-) 23:54:53 I updated the blue tileset, if anyone wants to see it 23:54:53 nice to meet you :) 23:55:11 Drakker: I want, later 23:55:12 Actually, I haven't downloaded it yet. I'll do it right now... 23:55:12 tokugawa: I'm not a regular developer, but I'm trying to help witch collision 23:55:30 the blue one looks MUCH better ;) 23:55:48 nell: I could record my voice 23:56:06 but I don't know what is needed (except 'everything') 23:56:08 li0n^: hwo about my problem with putting SAND tiles into the python scripts, have you got any idea what's wrong? 23:56:24 a good micro, good software 23:56:27 Pawel_Sokolowski: :) we'll think about the voices 23:56:42 you will most likely have to face an easy to use mac or a hellish windows machine :) 23:57:01 I haven't even looked at it yet. 23:57:06 nell: "CheckTileCollisions" I like it :) 23:57:25 dl'ing 15.9 23:57:31 nell: I'd need some info on the way your python scripts work btw (especialy how you do the xml binding) 23:57:36 li0n^: tokugawa has an idea how to solve the collision problem, he is learning the code now 23:58:04 nell: just give me some dialogue list and I'll do my best ;) 23:58:13 Drakker: if li0n^ will be able to be here from time to time, he is the best source of info, but of course I'll help 23:58:28 okay, well I'm pretty busy right now, but in a few hours maybe 23:59:02 Pawel_Sokolowski: Blacky is full of ideas about speaches :) 23:59:22 Yes, I heard :) 23:59:29 o, hello again Blacky_ 23:59:39 Blacky_ :) 23:59:48 Greetings Lion, it was a long time since we chat. 23:59:50 hey hey 00:00:15 Blacky_: Pawel_Sokolowski told he can record any sounds and speaches we want. 00:00:30 we need horses sounds ;) 00:00:53 Drakker: yeah, but only a horse can make it well 00:01:19 first thing we should do is look into free sounds databases and see what we can salvage 00:01:24 Compiling... 00:01:36 Hm, core dump... 00:01:45 Sorry- haven't been here; Reading backlog. 00:01:54 li0n^: today we chat with nell about sound support, looks like it will be quite easy to do, we just need to plan xml stuff (samples) 00:04:57 what lib do you plan to use? 00:05:01 openAL? 00:05:09 SDL_Mixer 00:06:05 without openAL this means stereo only, though I guess that for a shooter its plenty :) 00:07:24 AFAIR are you sure there is 3D support (hardware!) in OpenAL? 00:07:25 issues: Sand tiles, 15.9, tokugawa & collisions, python scripts (D), xml binding (D), availability, Blacky, XML sound.... 00:07:29 and what about OpenAL packages? 00:07:38 li0n^: er..? :-) 00:07:39 nope, but it can be done in software 00:07:50 Drakker: how? without 4 speakers? 00:08:10 Sand Tiles: Haven't looked at much, Nell. Looking at now... 00:08:41 li0n^: great, I am here, waiting patiently 00:09:04 li0n^: please, compare with the version of generators/ from my e-mail 00:09:08 Blacky_: I dont know exactly how it works, but I got a set of 2 surround speakers and they just work :) 00:09:25 looking in gamedata.xml... 00:09:27 Drakker: you have 3D sound with 2 speakers? 00:09:37 nell: can i ask for a priv for a sex ? 00:09:43 grrrrrrrrrr 00:09:48 Blacky_: not nearly as good as with 4+ speakers, but in the beginning, I remeber turning around when playing q1 =) 00:09:49 nell: can i ask for a priv for a sec I MEAN ? 00:09:52 sex? 00:10:02 tokugawa: sure, a SEC 00:10:05 :) 00:11:57 nell: Okay- stone handling is special, because it depends on context. 00:12:08 It is what is called a "base tile", and it is modified depending on it's neighbors. 00:12:30 The stone titles appear in levelrender.py, 00:12:37 and none have been changed to sand titles; 00:12:41 Is that intentional, or..? 00:12:45 Still investigating... 00:13:06 I am not sure if I understand everything 00:13:22 00:13:23 can you tell me, what the context realy is? 00:13:38 the context of the tile 00:13:41 Say you have a stone wall ("X") with open space above it- 00:13:55 then that stone wall ("X") isn't "wall stone", but rather "wall stone wu grass", 00:14:03 which means "Wall stone, with space above and grass." 00:14:10 Because of the context sensitive selection, 00:14:29 the wall tiles are called "base tiles". Special actions kick in to resolve them, within levelrender.py. 00:14:51 Creating sand tiles means- 00:14:58 Making a special set of resolvers for them. 00:15:08 Let me look at the old code for a moment... 00:15:19 You may want to look at class "BaseResolver". 00:15:43 I tried to copy that method 00:15:48 Have you figured out the core classes, "LevelRender", "MapData", and "Scene"? 00:15:54 and adjust it for the SAND tiles 00:16:00 00:16:14 There are three classes- 00:16:18 LiteralBaseResolver, 00:16:22 WaterBaseResolver, 00:16:26 and StoneBaseResolver. 00:16:26 li0n^: yes, but I concentrated on replacing STONE with SAND :) 00:16:33 {:)}= 00:16:36 I understand. 00:16:45 yes, and I added SandBaseResolver :) 00:16:46 You want a new class: 00:16:50 SandBaseResolver. 00:17:03 I tried it 00:17:04 hmm, by the way... this maybe not be polyvalent enough to make levels using all the special tiles I've drawn so far :\ 00:17:07 You have two basic choices- 00:17:08 hmm? 00:17:11 What went wrong? 00:17:16 look -> e-mail->generators.tar.gz 00:17:21 well I got tiles that MUST be placed manualy 00:17:24 little details :} 00:17:35 li0n^: levelblueprint_0.py doesn't work at all 00:17:43 Did you register the resolver? "s.registered_baseresolvers = { BASE_WATER: WaterBaseResolver,..." 00:17:51 basicaly, I though it was possible to make a level by tile... 00:17:54 li0n^: yes, I did 00:18:15 Drakker: what do you mean? 00:18:17 Why didn't it work? 00:18:29 li0n^: some problems with context.py i guess 00:18:33 li0n^: are you aware of segfaults and have any ideas why they are ? 00:18:43 Looking for a "generators.tar.gz...." 00:18:52 li0n^: just run levelblueprint_0.py there 00:18:52 nell: if you looke at the special tiles I made, screwed walls, holes in sand, sea shells 00:19:00 Oh, was it attached..? Let me see... 00:19:02 it would be very hard to place them consistently with such scripts 00:19:11 Context should be fine...? 00:19:20 PHYS_TILE_BOUNCE and PHYS_TILE_REPEL what is diffrent ? 00:19:28 Drakker: how do you know, have you seen levelblueprint_0.py e.g.? 00:19:45 I checked a bit 00:20:01 tokugawa: let us see, li0n^, any idea ;-) ? 00:20:09 but unless I'm wrong, the script would need a major overhaul to support so many different tiles.. I'm making a 128 tiles tileset :) 00:21:04 Okay, let's see... 00:21:15 Sorry, my mind is total- just a sec... 00:21:19 Drakker: I must see your tiles first to understand what's the problem here, but I cannot do it now, I have no access to the web pages today 00:21:20 Bounce vs. Repel- 00:21:28 Let's see; That may be a historical equivalence; 00:21:31 Let me check... 00:21:50 Yes- 00:21:53 Repel is 50% 00:21:54 Drakker: can you mail me archive file? 00:21:56 Bounce is 100% 00:22:04 Bounce also emits the Bounce bus message. 00:22:08 Repel emits no message. 00:22:15 tokugawa: Repel is 50%, Bounce is 100% 00:22:25 No real reason; If you wanted Repel to emit a bus message, you could do so easily. 00:22:38 li0n^: is repel harmles? 00:22:45 bus_Event( EVT_BOUNCE ) 00:22:53 ok 00:22:56 Just #define EVT_REPEL to 11, in object.h, and emit it. 00:22:59 Harmless..? 00:23:06 that's fiar ;-) 00:23:08 fair 00:23:23 Back to Sand? 00:23:29 Anything else over there? 00:23:40 im erasing http://wysocki.lodz.pdi.net/~nell/eounicorn/src/ from my eou mirrors list 00:23:42 nell: is dcc okay? simple 00:23:50 Back to sand. 00:24:07 want it too li0n^? 00:24:18 tokugawa: why? I will update it soon 00:24:25 Drakker: put stuff as patch 00:24:31 its not complete yet 00:24:37 I still got work to do :} 00:24:38 What? 00:24:38 li0n^: Blacky_ asked about sounds in XML, what do you think? 00:24:47 but theres more tiles in the set now, so it gives a better idea 00:24:48 XML sounds are +. 00:24:55 Shouldn't hurt at all. 00:25:00 li0n^: Drakker is talking about huge tileset in blue 00:25:12 Make sure you pipe sound filename through Low Level format. 00:25:15 Spec describes how. 00:25:16 li0n^: any suggestions for the tag names? 00:25:20 Think it was even an example. 00:25:27 Could use , 00:25:29 li0n^: we need to create design of sound stuff in xml, I mean what tags will be related to sounds, how much data for object (one sound? or few?) 00:26:07 Sound stuff in xml... 00:26:10 Many ways to do it; 00:26:16 Drakker: done 00:26:17 For now, I'd do this: 00:26:31 blah.wavbang.wav 00:26:37 Update wiki docs when you do. 00:27:15 hm 00:27:38 but instead FIRE we could use "missle appear" 00:27:47 BEAUTIFUL underwater tiles! 00:27:56 so in missile, instead FIRE in monster 00:27:58 Absolutely gorgeous. Cannot wait to play. 00:28:00 Drakker: well, the plant and the shell should rather be objects than background/wall tiles 00:28:09 Wish the shell thing was a creature though. {:)}= 00:28:16 exactly. 00:28:25 The pink thing- if it moved... 00:28:30 But it's amazing as it is. 00:28:35 {:D}= 00:28:35 Drakker: what about animation for the grass, now we have it animated, same with the plant 00:28:46 IT WORKS 00:28:52 What works?\ 00:29:00 tokugawa: what works :)? 00:29:01 it's not ideal, but it work.. 00:29:16 tokugawa: nothing is ideal on that world ... 00:29:23 tokugawa: come on, tell us 00:29:25 Back to sand... 00:29:26 my fishes and other are not blocking 00:29:38 li0n^: very well, I am waiting for conclusions 00:29:48 nell: So, what's the generator doing wrong? 00:29:55 The one you emailed me? 00:30:07 li0n^:are you in the generators/ form e-mail? 00:30:15 00:30:20 li0n^: when you do 'make' it is fine 00:30:27 Ah- "Name Not in Context" - is that the one? 00:30:37 Is that the prob? 00:30:42 li0n^: when you try to run "./levelblueprint_0.py" there are errors 00:30:47 Okay; 00:30:48 yes 00:30:50 it is 00:30:52 Let me debug a mmnt. 00:30:55 ok 00:31:34 I should have made it so that contexts are named, for debugging purposes... 00:31:39 Still looking... 00:31:56 Title contexts... 00:32:06 Title to Object... 00:32:12 So it's looking up an object... 00:32:31 readxml... 00:33:09 Outputting low level data... 00:33:20 * nell and the rest are waiting without breathing 00:33:37 nell: I've put everything in the tileset for now :} 00:34:01 thats why I want to know more about the way the python script and xml binding work, I think I could put everything, even animations, in one single tileset 00:34:16 except for the monsters, which are better out of the tileset 00:34:17 While looking up "wall sand brown n" 00:34:19 Drakker- 00:34:25 Great idea. 00:34:36 Put some "X/Y/W/H" coordinates in with the tile read; 00:34:41 Drakker: few long animation in one file? wouldn't be too tille place for that? 00:34:45 This can certainly be done. 00:35:12 well, I can put near infinite tiles in a single tileset 00:35:14 There are tradeoffs, but it'd be kinda neat. 00:35:20 if only walls and bg - it's ok then 00:35:22 Only problem is moving tiles around all the time. 00:35:28 But if it's more convenient, 00:35:32 so nothe prevents me from puttin all the frames on an animation side to site 00:35:38 I'm going to butt out and go back to this sand stuff... 00:35:46 and specifying in the xml binding that tiles 3,4 to 9,4 are for the grass animation 00:35:49 * tokugawa ^______^ 00:36:07 tokugawa smiles widely, what might it mean? 00:36:13 tokugawa: announce! 00:36:35 Drakker- those coords don't work, 'cuz tiles have diff sizes. 00:36:35 tokugawa: send a patch, send a patch! 00:36:47 li0n^: all my tiles have the same size for now 00:36:48 32x32 00:36:49 If you say "3,4" or "9,4", you are assuming 64x64 tiles. 00:36:54 Or whatever. {:)}= 00:36:54 the pink algae is just 3 tiles 00:36:59 But patricks fish are different sizes- 00:37:07 I'd include the width/height info in the XML. 00:37:08 I plan to add a few interchangeable algae tiles so you can make it any size you want :) 00:37:13 collision obscure less often now, but i have to work at it 00:37:35 Drakker: move algae to a separate file, make it one tile, 32x96, ok? 00:37:46 I'm taling about tiles only... animations sprites should be one file, but one file for each monster/object (thats the way I see it at least...) 00:38:00 Drakker: then make few others frames of animation 00:38:19 hahaha :) now the fihs block for a sec, and then unblock :) 00:38:31 Drakker: I understand you, but you must understand, that algae is not a wall nither a background 00:38:43 tokugawa: keep on testing 00:38:55 nell: thats would defeat the idea of having interchangeable algae tiles, I want to make a few tiles so you can make 2 tiles, 3 tiles, even 10 tiles high algaes 00:39:00 it would add diversity to the level 00:39:14 the algae I've drawn counts as a wall 00:39:21 it should block the player :} 00:39:23 I see, Drakker 00:39:29 hmm 00:39:35 I plan to make a few, darker algaes that go into the background 00:39:49 everything in that tileset is foreground right now 00:40:05 no, you're wrong, it will be still available to build high algae form separate tiles 00:40:34 but maybe I am wrong? 00:40:57 nell for a sec ? 00:41:05 well, what I proposed Blacky_ and just wrote is a way to minimise the number of files we use 00:41:12 Drakker: if you want the algale to block the player it annot be the part of the bg 00:41:22 tokugawa: ok 00:41:35 it should not be a part of the background, since its foreground :) 00:41:42 I havetn drawn any background yet by the way 00:41:52 Drakker idea is good 00:41:57 Drakker's idea is good 00:42:13 Drakker: you want it to be a part of the wall's set, yes? 00:42:15 maybe, one tileset for background/walls, with xml binding so the game engine knows what tile does what 00:42:23 and separate files for each animations 00:42:40 Drakker: that's fine 00:42:44 though, idealy, I should not have to make 8 files for 8 different tiles of grass 00:42:45 Drakker: I agree 00:42:53 Why not- 00:42:57 so I should be able to make a tileset of animated walls... 00:43:06 make it so that as part of the frame spec, 00:43:17 include "" tags? 00:43:31 well, I dont know how the xml binding works yet :} 00:43:36 thats why I asked nell for info earlier 00:43:50 readxml.py is the file- 00:43:50 maybe once I know how it works well I'll be able to explain this a bit better 00:44:00 Though it's not very pretty. 00:44:00 * Drakker doesnt know how python works 00:44:07 00:44:36 all I know is c/c++ :) 00:44:58 and pascal of course, but I havent done any pascal in years 00:44:59 You can figure out python quickly, then. {:)}= 00:45:04 Drakker: maybe we could cooperate, I can make the python stuff, you will coordinate it 00:45:06 Linked list: [1,2,3] {:)}= 00:45:24 String: "hello" {:)}= 00:45:26 well, idealy, I should be able to define what tile does what 00:47:06 so I dont have to bug any of you when I make new tiles :) 00:47:29 though, I suppose I could deal with different files for different animations... but as I said, if you take the grass in the tileset 00:47:32 its 8 tiles 00:47:43 each of these tiles would need at the minimum 4 frames of animations 00:47:47 thats would mean 8 files 00:48:01 The issue of tiles and specification is different than tiles, 00:48:06 if I can cram them all in one file, it makes my life a lot simpler, and it reduces the number of files we have to deal with 00:48:11 until you get into making tiles be different things in diff contexts. 00:48:34 Damnit; What am I doing... 00:48:40 I'm getting involved in EOUni... 00:48:46 li0n^: :) 00:48:49 00:49:17 well, the problem may be with the fact that I initialy though that you could make levels by defining which tile goes where 00:49:26 li0n^: don't cry, just help us with the biggest problems now, than you will decide what to do next 00:49:30 li0n^: are you ready for sound chat now? 00:50:00 Sorry, I don't know anything about that..? 00:50:13